epitaphic
Aug 18, 11:46 PM
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
brianus
Sep 13, 10:05 AM
probably due to latency involved in distributing the load across the two processors. that's the same problem a single Clovertown would have. Only true quads wouldn't suffer from these problems (earliest seems to be Harpertown in don't know if there are any non-MCM Xeons scheduled before then)
What about Tigerton (2007)? Isn't that a "true" quad?
What about Tigerton (2007)? Isn't that a "true" quad?
orkle
Nov 29, 08:45 AM
Just goes to show you how corrupt the music business really is!:mad:
And how little the average user actually knows about it.
And how little the average user actually knows about it.
8CoreWhore
Apr 25, 04:09 PM
GOOD!!
If Apple is not doing it, then they'll have to explain what is going on.
How rude and arrogant for them to not come clean and just address the questions head-on.
They owe us an explanation. We have a right to know what the device do and do not do.
If Apple is not doing it, then they'll have to explain what is going on.
How rude and arrogant for them to not come clean and just address the questions head-on.
They owe us an explanation. We have a right to know what the device do and do not do.
MacPhilosopher
Apr 10, 02:21 AM
Oh, we are totally getting an iPad app to go along with this program. I can feel it.
I would oh-so love the ability to down-rez a Final Cut project and send it to an iPad...do all my rough cutting there...and then bring it back to the Mac and re-link it to the real footage to do the detail work.
I've had a lot of fun playing with iMovie on the iPad. I am drooling for something similar that works as part of a Final Cut Pro workflow.
I'm a little confused...why was Avid presenting at a Final Cut Pro User Group's meeting anyway? Do they just come in and are like "Hey, you've all made a mistake!" or something?
I'm not so sure about the down res option, it sounds like an awful lot of time spent compressing, though I sure hope it is some type of interface, perhaps as an input device or palette.
I would oh-so love the ability to down-rez a Final Cut project and send it to an iPad...do all my rough cutting there...and then bring it back to the Mac and re-link it to the real footage to do the detail work.
I've had a lot of fun playing with iMovie on the iPad. I am drooling for something similar that works as part of a Final Cut Pro workflow.
I'm a little confused...why was Avid presenting at a Final Cut Pro User Group's meeting anyway? Do they just come in and are like "Hey, you've all made a mistake!" or something?
I'm not so sure about the down res option, it sounds like an awful lot of time spent compressing, though I sure hope it is some type of interface, perhaps as an input device or palette.
ezekielrage_99
Aug 17, 02:01 AM
A lot of folks are waiting for game benchmarks...bring 'em on!
Yeah put up some World of Warcraft or Doom 3 results, that's what this is all about a Mac being the fastest gaming machine :cool:
Yeah put up some World of Warcraft or Doom 3 results, that's what this is all about a Mac being the fastest gaming machine :cool:
twoodcc
Sep 19, 12:18 AM
well i hope that this happens....and that they make more changes with the MBP
mwswami
Jul 21, 05:08 PM
Problem with that arrangement is that you are limited to the use of two cores for any one appication and there are already several I use that can use up to almost 3 at once. It would also get very confusing which mini you are on at a given moment.
Yeah I could also get a second G5 Quad. But that would be cheating. :D
Got it. Thanks!
If you haven't seen it before, I found this (http://www.macminicolo.net/) very interesting.
Yeah I could also get a second G5 Quad. But that would be cheating. :D
Got it. Thanks!
If you haven't seen it before, I found this (http://www.macminicolo.net/) very interesting.
buckers
Apr 6, 01:29 PM
What do you intend to do on an Air that will require what little extra power the nvidia gfx offers over Intel. You sure as hell can't game with it.
You sure as hell can.
This.
You sure as hell can.
This.
spazzcat
Mar 22, 01:38 PM
Lack of Flash support is the achilles heel of iPad. I hope Jobs gets off his high horse and relents.
Flash is dying fast, faster then I even thought it would...
Flash is dying fast, faster then I even thought it would...
Multimedia
Sep 13, 01:21 PM
A bit pointless given that no software utilises the extra cores yet. But nice to know, I guess.No software such as, Cinema 4D, Motion, Aperture, Final Cut Pro etcNo software such as Toast 7.1, Handbrake UB. More to the point is not how many cores an application can use but rather how many things you can get done at once. :rolleyes:From my usage of FCP, Compressor, Aperture and DVDSP, they work very well with the MacPro but I haven't seen them approach usage of even 3 full cores.
Ability to multistask is great but I would not say that any one of the above is using all cores the way we want them to. I would contend that this is coming and pointed out in another thread that some of the FCP benchmarks on Apple's MacPro performance page are footnoted that the figures given were using Beta version of FCP.I think in the next few months the full FCS and Logic will get an update to address this.
Ability to multistask is great but I would not say that any one of the above is using all cores the way we want them to. I would contend that this is coming and pointed out in another thread that some of the FCP benchmarks on Apple's MacPro performance page are footnoted that the figures given were using Beta version of FCP.I think in the next few months the full FCS and Logic will get an update to address this.
Huhn
Mar 22, 02:53 PM
According to the hate, Apple Fanboys are giving those new competitors....it seems like it is the first real competition. Get out of your homes guys and girls and compare.... I own an iPhone 4 and a MBP, but came from and Android phone and guess what? The UI is way better than those ugly millions of square buttons that you see on the iPhone. I still prefer it...because of other reasons like battery and the built in ipod.
Samsung now has the thinnest Tablet with a dual core, plus still better camera and a much nicer UI. I would rather buy that one than the iPad, just because....uhm well i don�t have to send my files (all type of files) by email to myself to transfer them? and maybe i wanna exchange files with workmates without using an adapter the whole time. Maybe i really wanna use and work with that thing than playing games and watching movies or browsing (guess thats what 95% do with their iPad).
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Samsung now has the thinnest Tablet with a dual core, plus still better camera and a much nicer UI. I would rather buy that one than the iPad, just because....uhm well i don�t have to send my files (all type of files) by email to myself to transfer them? and maybe i wanna exchange files with workmates without using an adapter the whole time. Maybe i really wanna use and work with that thing than playing games and watching movies or browsing (guess thats what 95% do with their iPad).
DeeEss
Apr 27, 08:38 AM
NWO run for the hills!
skunk
Mar 23, 05:34 PM
I keep seeing these pointless ad hominems popping up in your posts. It really is getting tiresome.Isn't that an ad feminam?
kingsmuse
Apr 6, 05:08 PM
This can't be right. MR posters have assured me that the Xoom is better than the iPad. I mean, if you can't trust MR posters, whom can you trust?
You don`t really use the opinion of the American public as a standard for what is "better" do you?
:)
You don`t really use the opinion of the American public as a standard for what is "better" do you?
:)
daneoni
Aug 26, 09:26 AM
Get with what program? I went to the support site on the day the recall was announced, checked to see if my serial number was in the range, it wasn't, and I went on with my life. Just to be safe, I even checked back a couple days later, and the ranges were still the same as the first time I checked.
I had to do the same thing wheh I was checking out our Dell laptops at the office. It's really not that difficult a concept. I think some people just like to have something to complain about.
Some sites were reporting wrong ranges, at the end of the day its which site alerts you first, in my case it was MR and they didnt get it right (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060824134647.shtml) initially which is.......confusing
I had to do the same thing wheh I was checking out our Dell laptops at the office. It's really not that difficult a concept. I think some people just like to have something to complain about.
Some sites were reporting wrong ranges, at the end of the day its which site alerts you first, in my case it was MR and they didnt get it right (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060824134647.shtml) initially which is.......confusing
AppleFreak89
Jun 9, 08:58 AM
Everything BIBBZ is saying is correct and works the same at my store. we had a lot of people trade in their 3g for 3gs' and pay $5 out of pocket :). its a good deal.
PhantomPumpkin
Apr 25, 04:39 PM
You are skating around the issue of user permission. If you use this app to track your location - its YOUR CHOICE. However, the issue here is that Apple is collecting the data without the option of user choice. Even turning off location services does not stop the collection and submittal to Apple of this information.
That is what is the hearty of the matter - do we, as users, have the right to opt to to the collection and submittal of location data to Apple ? With your example, you do, as you can turn off the app at will.
Please, link me any evidence this is submitted to Apple.
That is what is the hearty of the matter - do we, as users, have the right to opt to to the collection and submittal of location data to Apple ? With your example, you do, as you can turn off the app at will.
Please, link me any evidence this is submitted to Apple.
Val-kyrie
Jul 30, 01:27 PM
Gee, talk about getting ahead of yourself.
Core 3 will be out before Vista is. I'm going to call it now.
Everybody, be my witness, Core 3 (any processor that goes beyond Core 2 because I don't know if they'll call it "Core 3") will be out before a consumer version of Vista is shipped.
You don't think Vista will be out before the revision to the Core 2 Duo due in Q1 2007 with the Santa Rosa chipset??? I bet Vista will ship by the time the Santa Rosa chipset is ready, especially because MS is suggesting Vista systems use harddrives or Mobos with flash RAM to speed up the boot process.
Core 3 will be out before Vista is. I'm going to call it now.
Everybody, be my witness, Core 3 (any processor that goes beyond Core 2 because I don't know if they'll call it "Core 3") will be out before a consumer version of Vista is shipped.
You don't think Vista will be out before the revision to the Core 2 Duo due in Q1 2007 with the Santa Rosa chipset??? I bet Vista will ship by the time the Santa Rosa chipset is ready, especially because MS is suggesting Vista systems use harddrives or Mobos with flash RAM to speed up the boot process.
logandzwon
Apr 25, 02:49 PM
OMG, have you heard? Apple is secretly spying on our TXT messages, contacts, and e-mail! Seriously! If someone stole my iPhone and guessed my passcode they would be able to look through this list of "contacts" and find out where I lived. They could even check my calendar and know when I'm not home and come rob me. Even if I put fake info in my contacts they can still see my e-mails! All they have to do is look through my e-mails and find a receipt, or shipping notice, or the bill for the power, or my cellphone bill, or my water bill and they would have my home address!
mcoyne
Apr 27, 08:40 AM
Poo. I'd rather have the option to keep backing up that cache file to iTunes. I like the ability to see a map of where I've been using the iPhoneTracker app. :(
Agreed! Stupid whiners. I hope they will add an option to let your iphone continue keeping a cache of all your locations.
Agreed! Stupid whiners. I hope they will add an option to let your iphone continue keeping a cache of all your locations.
leekohler
Apr 27, 05:19 PM
Oh, I thought his administration was the one that dropped the F-bomb on live TV.
Or that he was the one who fabricated a "healthcare crisis" so that he could ram through legislation that doesn't even kick in for years
I thought he was the one who is always on the news whining about why nothing ever goes his way.
He is the inexperienced child. And if he hadn't been born in the US, that would have been great news
There is nothing fabricated about the healthcare crisis. Our system is beyond broken. I have good insurance and nearly went bankrupt last year because of hereditary medical issues. That should not happen in any civilized country
Or that he was the one who fabricated a "healthcare crisis" so that he could ram through legislation that doesn't even kick in for years
I thought he was the one who is always on the news whining about why nothing ever goes his way.
He is the inexperienced child. And if he hadn't been born in the US, that would have been great news
There is nothing fabricated about the healthcare crisis. Our system is beyond broken. I have good insurance and nearly went bankrupt last year because of hereditary medical issues. That should not happen in any civilized country
wpotere
Apr 28, 08:11 AM
Sad, pathetic, misguided
Speaking of which...
Speaking of which...
srxtr
Mar 31, 03:54 PM
This wont end androids openness. It will make is so that there is more of a consistent experience amung all android devices.
We will still be able to install from "unknown sources" for example.
Relaz macrumors.. not as big as deal as you are making it.
Openness means it should not matter whether it's consistent or not.
If every android device out there was consistent with each other, that defies the definition of openness.
Being able to install whatever you want from "unknown sources" is not the "open" OS this article is referring to.
We will still be able to install from "unknown sources" for example.
Relaz macrumors.. not as big as deal as you are making it.
Openness means it should not matter whether it's consistent or not.
If every android device out there was consistent with each other, that defies the definition of openness.
Being able to install whatever you want from "unknown sources" is not the "open" OS this article is referring to.
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